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 Version 3.5 
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Noble

Joined: 21 Aug 2019, o 10:47
Posts: 26
Post Re: Version 3.5
I went ahead and started playing the newest SVN build. I have to say, I had heard that it was much slower but I haven't seen a noticeable performance dip. Maybe that's because I usually play on smaller maps and I haven't gotten to the point in the game yet where there's a lot of separatism going on, but it's not absolutely killing my load times just yet. Bear in mind, I'm on a laptop so when I run like a Huge or Giant map my load times are not the best by around 1100 AD. So I can only imagine what the separatism would do to that.


27 Feb 2020, o 09:33
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007, o 09:23
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Post Re: Version 3.5
The performance impact is fortunately additive - it shouldn't escalate any more than it would be without revolutions enabled, nor should it increase more than linearly with the number of players and cities in game (some calculations increase geometrically or worse with those). So while the impact is visible, it should not be decisive - not a step from 2 to 20 seconds per turn, but rather from 2 to 3. People who were willing to tolerate 5 minute turn times late in game on the huge world map (I'm not one of them and I don't understand how they play it, but that's just me) will likely be willing to tolerate 8 minute turn times at the same point in time.


27 Feb 2020, o 09:41
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Noble

Joined: 21 Aug 2019, o 10:47
Posts: 26
Post Re: Version 3.5
Yeah, I think the dynamism and the flavor is definitely worth a small performance hit, especially given its just load times and not like framerates or stuttering or anything.


27 Feb 2020, o 09:45
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Trainee

Joined: 7 Sep 2015, o 22:34
Posts: 22
Post Re: Version 3.5
Image


27 Feb 2020, o 12:49
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Noble

Joined: 21 Aug 2019, o 10:47
Posts: 26
Post Re: Version 3.5
I've played two games of 3.5 so far, one as Japanese and the other is in progress as Egyptians. The one as Japan didn't get too far because half the map hated my guts. Nevertheless, I have to say I have a favorable impression so far.

I will complement the developers on their implementation of the Revolutions mechanic. Every. Single. Civ IV mod that I have ever played that had Revolutions made them way too prominent. At least in my experience so far, the revolutions seem to be believable and empires seem to be able to be fairly large still. Will see how this continues later in the game.


27 Feb 2020, o 16:43
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Trainee

Joined: 7 Sep 2015, o 22:34
Posts: 22
Post Re: Version 3.5
I want to play too =( Can't take it from SVN. Who can give link to download?


27 Feb 2020, o 16:52
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Noble

Joined: 23 Sep 2018, o 01:14
Posts: 29
Post Re: Version 3.5
I'm waiting too.....


But while waiting, I made an "add" about this mod yesterday in the Civfanatics forum - both about the working ver. 3.4 and the new 3.5.


28 Feb 2020, o 01:31
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Trainee

Joined: 7 Sep 2015, o 22:34
Posts: 22
Post Re: Version 3.5
Walter Hawkwood, where are you? =)


28 Feb 2020, o 05:08
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RI Team
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007, o 09:23
Posts: 3010
Post Re: Version 3.5
Eh, I don't know what you're all doing not downloading 3.5... :-)

3.5 Full Installer


28 Feb 2020, o 06:51
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Trainee

Joined: 7 Sep 2015, o 22:34
Posts: 22
Post Re: Version 3.5
YEEE! TY!


28 Feb 2020, o 07:11
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Noble

Joined: 21 Aug 2019, o 10:47
Posts: 26
Post Re: Version 3.5
Just wondering what you guys did to tweak the culture borders in this latest build. It seems like there is a lot less movement of cultural borders (which I'm fine with) and the borders seem to be a bit more static. Which is good, in my opinion.


28 Feb 2020, o 08:20
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Post Re: Version 3.5
Nothing specifically for that. Culture works exactly the same as it always did.


28 Feb 2020, o 08:24
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Noble

Joined: 21 Aug 2019, o 10:47
Posts: 26
Post Re: Version 3.5
I think its the AI's city placement. Because I think you guys tweaked that a bit. They seem to place their cities more strategically, which leads to less culture-cramming through putting cities way too forward.


29 Feb 2020, o 13:46
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Noble

Joined: 21 Aug 2019, o 10:47
Posts: 26
Post Re: Version 3.5
Also I really love the Animism civic now. I like to play on the Earth2 random map and I almost always get stuck in central Africa or southeast Asia. So used to be you would start over because of how much of a pain it is to deal with jungles. But Animism + Mohenjo Daro makes a jungle civ pretty powerful imo.


29 Feb 2020, o 14:17
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Trainee

Joined: 27 Feb 2020, o 06:22
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Post Re: Version 3.5
Maybe ah, maybe seperatism shouldn't be a thing if you only have 2 cities.

So my first game I was in the classic age, wasn't playing so hot because it's been years but things weren't too bad. I had 2 cities, was researching my target religion and though there was no iron or copper anywhere I could access I had horses at least. Then suddenly my second city declared it's independence. Instantly creating a stack of swordsmen, a unit that I was completely unable to produce. Oh and my horses, yeah that city was the one with the horses.

So guess I'll try again another day.


2 Mar 2020, o 06:46
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Post Re: Version 3.5
I hate making the "git gud" type of comments, but since I've seen your stream, that one is completely on you. You did everything in your power to let the city revolt away. Basically had your "let them eat cake" moment.

1) You seem to not manage the happiness in your cities at all. Why ever let them go unhappy? A size 3 city is objectively better than a size 4 city with an unhappy citizen, since it has the same number of productive citizens (3) but eats for four. There is (and always was, even in vanilla civ 4) a button you could press to make city stop growing, "prevent city growth". And for people's convenience, 3.5 has even introduced several new buttons in the city interface that automatically toggle growth prevention on if a city were to become unhappy or unhealthy or in danger of epidemic from it. It literally requires no effort from players now other than pressing one button per city, if they so want. And unhappiness is a major factor in separatism.
2) You chose the only civic that under your particular circumstances didn't allow you to deal with the riots, while also leaving the civic that gave you a passive separatism reduction. Republic is good against separatism only if it has money for bribes. Otherwise, if you plan on running low, you should probably stick to Autocracy or Monarchy or later civics when they are available.
3) The units in the city were not "swordsmen, a unit that I was completely unable to produce", they were shortswordsmen that you totally could at the point and were irregulars aka the least specialized and simplest units you could build at the point (granted, YOU could not build something significantly better since you lacked bronze/iron, but you definitely could build those same units). A breakaway civ is technologically equal to the civ it breaks away from.
4) Generally speaking, I'd suggest at least a cursory glance on factors that affect separatism - both positively and more importantly negatively, as those you'll use to actively manage it in your cities (hint: garrisoned units and espionage points generated by the city actively reduce separatism, and ensuring the city is right religion/culture lowers the separatism generated).

Hopefully armed with this you'll be prepared again to try another day. Also, keep an eye on the separatism - at least for warning signs on the city board, next to where an unhealthy/unhappy status is displayed - a yellow separatism symbol indicates separatism above 0% (a threshold where a city can join other rebels were they to break away), and an orange one above 10% (the threshold where a city can actually go into riots and break away on itself). Also, maybe choose a difficulty level a tad lower than a very respectable Monarch while you learn the ropes of this version.


2 Mar 2020, o 16:04
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Trainee

Joined: 27 Feb 2020, o 06:22
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Post Re: Version 3.5
Letting cities be unhappy is a somewhat sloppy habit I think I formed from the vanilla game, where extra citizens were valuable for use in construction with the slavery civic. When your best tiles produce large amounts of food there's little reason not to let the population grow even if the extras are 'useless' as there are sometimes opportunities to quickly raise happiness, such as acquiring multiple resources through trade etc. (also happiness tends to go up and down as wars and random 'we don't want to trade with you anymore' and similar events, which reinforced my sloppy habit of just leaving some slack in the population)

Yeah, um. Is there some documentation that I can read. I went in blind (as I pretty much always do in LPs) and had NO IDEA that we were only using 10% of the separatist meter. Or that a republic was uniquely vulnerable to separatism.

I'm planning to give it another go in a couple days. And though I'd still very much like to be surprised by the all the new techs, units, etc. I think I'm going to need a thorough knowledge of what's up with this and how to counter it.

Edit: Found the manual in the documentation folder.


3 Mar 2020, o 04:27
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Trainee

Joined: 1 Jan 2017, o 16:56
Posts: 6
Post Re: Version 3.5
I'm confused. Is it the SVN version that is slower or the downloadable version too? I plan on downloading the file. Is the revolutions feature something that can be turned off? Pardon my ignorance.


3 Mar 2020, o 13:46
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007, o 09:23
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Post Re: Version 3.5
gorzo55 wrote:
I'm confused. Is it the SVN version that is slower or the downloadable version too? I plan on downloading the file. Is the revolutions feature something that can be turned off? Pardon my ignorance.


It is slower if revolutions (a feature that wasn't in 3.4) is turned on, regardless in SVN or 3.5. It can be turned off in custom game settings.


3 Mar 2020, o 14:52
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Trainee

Joined: 3 Mar 2020, o 18:25
Posts: 1
Post Re: Version 3.5
Hiya, just downloaded the latest version. Thanks very much to all involved, this whole project is awesome and obviously a labour of love.

I have a question not about the mod exactly but the mapbuilder, I've played a few games with the 'PerfectMongoose_v321_RI_Edition' which is the same one as I used in version 3.4. I was just wondering if anything had deliberately changed in it, as it now seems to build a few quirky things I haven't seen before? Now I've seen it put forests tiles in desert (at the edge of the desert), flood plains a bit different to how I'm used to (flood plains on some plains tiles and "missing" on some desert tiles in the middle of a row of flood plains), odd coastal water tiles extend a bit further than normal but most weirdly there are a lot of ocean tiles right next to land, with no coast in between (as well as stopping ships sailing round the coast, this last one looks graphically weird too).

I was just wondering if this is supposed to have changed, and really also is this the preferred mapbuilder for RI? There is a massive list of options, I've always just used that one as it has RI in the title, but I have no idea if it's the "best" one! Thanks in advance for any advice.


3 Mar 2020, o 18:40
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Noble

Joined: 23 Sep 2018, o 01:14
Posts: 29
Post Re: Version 3.5
Just saw this in the Civfanatics download-section:



Realism Invictus 3.5 hotfix 2

A hotfix zip file for 3.5 installers; works with both full and light
Tags:

hotfix mod realism invictus

Overview
Updates (1)
Version History

Hotfix 2:

- Continents map script should now correctly place all resources, including water ones
- Fixed a couple of units being invisible in the selection box

Hotfix 1:

- Solved a bug where barbarians could make peace with the whole world if a city revolted to them while no barbarian cities were around

Hotfixes are cumulative: only the latest one needs to be applied.

Recent Updates

Realism Invictus 3.5 hotfix 2 Saturday at 2:28 PM






Is this something, that we should download too or was it already part of the installer we used when we linked to the new version from here?


10 Mar 2020, o 01:18
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007, o 09:23
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Post Re: Version 3.5
You should. It's a hotfix specifically because it is not included in the installer.


10 Mar 2020, o 02:40
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Noble

Joined: 23 Sep 2018, o 01:14
Posts: 29
Post Re: Version 3.5
I do like this new version, specially this that it's more difficult to control own nation during the eras, specially when you take enemy-cities. Or when you chooce "free religion" and lose 1-2 happy-faces in many of your cities.

But there are also two problems playing with that option.

1st: The AI seems to handle it rather fine until we get to the medival era. Then the AI seems to loose too much control. The way it works is "ok" against the human player, but a little "unfair" towards the AI.
2nd: When the AI loose control, new nations pop up - just as they are supposed to. But with too many new nations (that of course also builds up and expands) the save-file grows too fast. When I reach 'round turn 1800 out of 3045, the save-file is about 3,2MB or a little higher. At turn 2000+, the save-file is about 3.4-3.5MB. I can "keep it down" using the editor, deleting very small nations. But when you have done so 8-10-12 times, then game somehow feels..... boring.


I have been going down in map-size and in number of starting nations. But I still ends up with a file so big, that it's clear to me I can't end the game with a "real" winner.


I do like my setup (mapsize and number of starting nations). So next try could be to prevent the barbarians from forming new nations - maybe totally "remove" the barbarians so you just have the revolting pezzies...... Don't know....

Any good advices outthere? Is there a better way out of this?!?!


13 Apr 2020, o 04:02
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007, o 09:23
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Post Re: Version 3.5
TBH, it just sounds like you'd probably enjoy playing more with Rev off.


13 Apr 2020, o 04:48
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Noble

Joined: 23 Sep 2018, o 01:14
Posts: 29
Post Re: Version 3.5
No. I'm not going to turn Rev off. Not before I have tried "what-ever" I could think off.


The concept is..... wonderfull. And it works.

Just a little bit too good towards the AI.


I just started a new game with babarians turned off both in the start but most important not being able to make new independent nations.


13 Apr 2020, o 10:57
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Trainee

Joined: 29 Mar 2020, o 12:43
Posts: 10
Post Re: Version 3.5
Unfortunately the massive save file issue seems to be completely unavoidable in larger maps, my game was able to handle 5.3mb before crashing every turn. There's no way to solve the issue either without firaxis releasing source code or making the game 64 bit, any any solutions to make the save smaller like world editing are just temporary and you'll be crashing every turn sooner or later. (see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1958)

What I'm trying to find out is: how much does revolutions increase the game file size by? How much does extra civs increase the game file size? Is it possible to finish a huge earth map game into the late era without revolutions? I'm considering starting a new huge earth map game if it's possible to get to the late era without the save file becoming too large. What I'm afraid is that this mod is totally impossible to complete in all scenarios and all large maps due to the crippling file limit bug with or without revolutions turned on.


13 Apr 2020, o 11:29
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Trainee

Joined: 25 Apr 2020, o 14:49
Posts: 2
Post Re: Version 3.5
Hi, registered to say that you have really hooked me on this mod. Been a long time BTS deity veteran and having a lot of new and meaningful content really engaged me.

My experience so far is one Deity game where it turned out that I had the whole island for myself. By the 1AD, I managed to get ahead of everyone in and so I fired another game on Pangaeish map and my greedy, no army play got me nearly killed and in desperate situation. Humbled, I turned the difficulty down to Emperor and tried again, having finally absorbed the concepts.

Current observation, I am totally owning the AI, ATM (early ADs but the leader from basically 2000BC). My score, research, number of cities, it is all double/triple from the second best. And now I have a huge separatism issue. The modifier is absurdly high and it also depends on itself, because military might also plays a role in this modifier. So, the more units I build, the more separatism is induced. At some point, the military could become net negative. What I do not like is that I can afford to combat separatism (I have production), but what I get is that each of 13 cities with average size of 18 has an army which could conquer the continent. And it is 100AD. Not really realistic, wouldn't you agree? What I miss is some info on the mechanics for me (or anyone) to try to find the sweet spot. In current situation, it'd probably be best for me to starve cities back to size 12-13 or even less to free up the army to kill the map. But that also means that I could ignore all the happiness, health, trade, whatever buildings in the map, build wealth and units and be done with it, which is less engaging. What is problematic is that I am actually trying to go to space with my empire as I want to see all the stuff in the game. However, the mechanics is actually making this much easier at Deity as the relative difference between the player and the AI is much smaller together with separatism issues. In my first Deity game, the third strongest AI got totally killed by separatism. Each and every city but the capital separated. Others had separatism issues as well. I have taken the opportunity and have taken separated cities in couple of turns as they are defended by 4-6 units without any diplo hits as no one liked the new guys yet. But the second AI was ok with that and my score lead did not increase the separatism modifier that much.

So, my conclusions on separatism are:
1. The separatism is harder on the player on lower levels if player is successful,
2. The separatism makes deity easier as you can vulture around the AIs, especially if you make them go to war and they send most of their army away, increasing theirs separatism issues,
3. The separatism is easy to deal with but is very tedious.
4. Turning the separatism mechanics off is helping AI more than helping the human while making the game less tedious.
5. Separatism as it is makes diplo screen cluttered by all the new civs which have nothing to give and also take resources away from main civs making a player interact with AIs much less
6. Maybe the separatism could be improved if the modifiers having anything to do with the scoreboard went away as they have too many tedious side effects. You should not be punished for being good at the game by getting a chore to make every second build an irregular unit.

I feared that the slave revolts could be too problematic and imbalanced, but having dealt with dozens of them so far, they are in really good position. Can sometimes be devastating, but you can also get your slaves back if you happen to manage the response. You get rewarded for good play.

Generally, I feel the game is easier than the BTS because there are so many options for the AI, that the focus from the human can not be rivaled. I get basically any wonder I want due to the beelining.
I'll try more deity games in the future to get the feeling of the game.

From other things, I think that obsoleting the buildings and forcing the player to build the same building with a bit extra buff is also tedious and not that realistic. Old stuff works, but is less efficient. It'd be better to just add buffs to the old building and change it's name and icon with the new tech. Or to build and upgrade. Its cost could scale with era. Maybe that is difficult to mod it in so you went this path. Maybe having a road in place could shave the turns for the paved road?

But basically, that is it. I really love the mod. Adds a lot of depth to the game. Not being able to build every wonder and reap its benefits due to civic prereqs is very intelligent and realistic. Appreciate the effort.


25 Apr 2020, o 16:18
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Joined: 25 Apr 2020, o 14:49
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Post Re: Version 3.5
Just discovered that the espionage helps with separatism. A lot. So, it is a bit less tedious for the human.
However, the poor AI is not dealing well with this, maybe a bit of help to the AI would be good.
I would like to keep playing with this option.

Sorry for double posting.


25 Apr 2020, o 17:23
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Noble

Joined: 23 Sep 2018, o 01:14
Posts: 29
Post Re: Version 3.5
I forgot to post, that preventing the barbs from forming new nations seems to work. I actually did finish a long giant game within the 4MB save-file limit at oct. 2014 (3045 turns, filesize 3,912MB).

It "delays" the time where new nations that you doesn't have added to start with appears on the stage.


I started with 11 nations plus my own. At the end I had 9 rivals and 17 other dead nations on the scoreboard, so 15 new nations was created during the game when one of the big AIs was hit by the revolutions (but killed again after some time).

Very often when big parts of an AI-nation broke loose, they just joined the barb-"nation" and didn't form a new one. I think - THINK, doesn't know - that the relative "low" number of active independend nations during the game was the mainreason to keep the save-game filesize below those 4MB at the end.


12 Jun 2020, o 23:45
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Warlord

Joined: 4 Oct 2017, o 05:17
Posts: 68
Location: Australia
Post Re: Version 3.5
shakabrade wrote:
Just discovered that the espionage helps with separatism. A lot. So, it is a bit less tedious for the human.
However, the poor AI is not dealing well with this, maybe a bit of help to the AI would be good.
I would like to keep playing with this option.

Sorry for double posting.


The fact that you made that wall of text of opinions without having put enough time in to even properly test it shows me that you should probably reserve your judgement in the future until you're actually versed in what you're talkin about. Like cmon


19 Jun 2020, o 08:16
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