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 Suggestions for cities renaming 
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Noble

Joined: 3 Jun 2017, o 10:24
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Location: Curitiba, Brazil
Post Suggestions for cities renaming
As I promised in the other topic, this is my first batch of suggestions for cities renaming.

Let's start with cities wich already are registered in Dynamic Cities files:
Alemanni: This barbarian city could be flavoured to "Strasbourg" for Frenchs, as their default is Strassburg.
Algiers: Under the French rule of Algeria, this city was called "Alger"
Brescia: Could be called as "Bressa" for Venetian derivative civ.
Burgundian: This barbarian city that is renamed to Lyons by default, could be renamed to "Wälsch-Leyden" for Germans, as in the Holy Roman Empire maximum extension, Lyons was call like this.
Coronia: This barbarian city it's renamed to Landskrona by default but for Vikings in specifically could be "Landzcrone" since it's the way the Danes founded it in 1405.
Hamburg: One of the German cities wich could be renamed for French civ - "Hambourg".
Visigoth: As the same for Celtics and Romans, Spanishs also could rename this barbarian city as "Tolosa" instead of default Toulouse.


Now the cities that are present in game but should be registered in the files:
Amsterdam: This is the most simple rename - when Netherlands was rulled by Spain in the XVI century, they call this city as "Ámsterdam".
Bombay: This one should stil Bombay for native Indians and Dravidians but their default could be "Mumbai" since this was the name in the British colonial period.
Hannover: Other city of the Germans wich could be flavored for French civ - "Hanovre".
Kanpur: Similar to Bombay, this one should keep like this for Indians and Dravidians but "Cawnpore" for default.
Kashgar: In Chinese control, it's named "Kashí".
Madrid: The Roman Empire founded this city as a village named "Matrice". Later on in the Muslim control of Iberian Peninsula, they called Madrid as "Mayrit" (could apply it to Berbers too I think).
Tebessa: It should be this by default, but for their founders Berbers should call it "Tbessa" since this is the way in their language. For Greeks and Romans, it should called "Theveste", both civs once have conquered this city.
Thugga: Like Tebessa, it should be like this by default but for Berbers it is "Dugga". Greeks once kept this city as colony, it was called "Tokai" by the time.


22 Dec 2017, o 08:47
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Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
Alemanni: thanks, you actually helped me find a minor bug where there were separate entries for this one and French Strasbourg. Merged.
Algiers: implemented, though I think the default name "Algiers" is also French in origin.
Brescia: I don't touch derivative civs yet. I want to finish the playable ones first.
Burgundian: here and further, I want to note that I don't use diacritics in the file (except for Hungary, but I am tired of Hungarians explaining me they won't have it any other way), mostly for potential compatibility issues. So if a name is only different in diacritic use (often the case with Turkish-specific names, for instance), I don't include it as a separate variant. Included otherwise.
Coronia: included.
Hamburg: included, though this one is an example of what I'd consider a minor variant.
Visigoth: included.

Other:
Amsterdam: not a rename, as per "no diacritics" principle.
Bombay: I think you're having it in reverse. Mumbai is its current name, while in colonial era its name was Bombay. There are no leaders for India who are recent enough to catch the current name, though, so it stays Bombay for all.
Hannover: added.
Kanpur: added.
Kashgar: added.
Madrid: Spanish civ not yet processed. Madrid will get added in due time.
Tebessa: added.
Thugga: added.


22 Dec 2017, o 10:28
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Noble

Joined: 3 Jun 2017, o 10:24
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Location: Curitiba, Brazil
Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
I noticed the diacritics thing now. From time to time I'll bring more cities in this post, thank you!


22 Dec 2017, o 11:21
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Noble

Joined: 3 Jun 2017, o 10:24
Posts: 31
Location: Curitiba, Brazil
Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
I was planning to spend a few more weeks searching to bring a very large list this time but since I heard that a new release is coming before the New Year I rather prefer post I've got until now than see none of this in 3.4, so here it are:

Like the other post, first the cities wich already are in the files:
Bantu: This barbarian city could be flavored as "Leopoldville" for Frenchs, since it's represent Kinshasha
Chengdu: Although a simple rename, a colonial feel could be felt in this city if it's is "Chengtu" by default and stays the way it is for the two China's.
Gyumri: Turks once called it "Gumru".
Jakarta: Under the Dutch rule, this city was called "Batavia".
Jayapura: One more city the Dutch controlled, this one was "Hollandia".
Malmo: Keep like this by default but "Malmhaug" for Vikings since it's was the original name the Danes give to it.
Patras: "Patrae" for Romans.
Sakae: This barbarian city that is renamed to Hotan by default for the two China's it could be flavored to "Hetian" instead.
Tebessa: There is something wrong with this one, Berbers are founding this as Tebessa and not "Tbessa" as it is supposed to be, at least the leader Massinissa I'm pretty sure.
Xining: "Seleng" for Mongolians.

Now the cities that need entries:
Antium: It should be keep like this for Romans but "Anzio" by default.
Benares: This by default but "Varanasi" for Indians and Dravidians.
Fuzhou: This for the two China's but "Foochow" as default to provide the colonial feel.
Kutaraja: Should be "Banda Aceh" for Austronesians and stays Kutaraja by default to provide the colonial feel. Also, it could be named as "Lamuri" for barbarians since there was a kingdom with this name where this city is before the conquest of Indonesians.
Magadala (I think it should write "Magdala" actually): For Arabians it could be "Qariyat al-Majdal" and for Judeans it's "Migdal".
Malacca: This by default but "Melaka" for their founders Austronesians since it is the way of write in malayan language.
Pi-Ramesses: "Qantir" by default - Pi-Ramesses only for Egyptians or maybe only for the leader Ramesses.
Stirling: This by default but "Sruighlea" for Celts.
Surabaya: Interesting how many renames the Austronesians could provide to the Dutch civ - "Soerabaja" for them.
Susa: Keep like this for Persians but "Shush" by default since it's the modern name.
Timbuktu: This by default but "Tumbutu" for their founders of Mali since it's the way in Songhai language, also, in the French colonial period this city was called "Tombouctou".


28 Dec 2017, o 06:49
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Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
In order of suggestions:

Bantu: debatable, since this is a Belgian name, but since they are half-Francophone, I'll allow it.
Chengdu: done, though this is a really minor difference.
Gyumri: done
Jakarta: Dutch are not playable, and I will not be adding stuff for non-playable civs yet (you might want to call me out on Mughals and Ukraine, but they are at least scenario-playable)
Jayapura: same
Malmo: since it is currently controlled by the same civ, modern name will do for it. It might work for Ragnar if he had it among his cities, but otherwise it's too archaic for other leaders.
Patras: done
Sakae: done
Tebessa: fixed
Xining: done

Antium: is on no leader list. Not needed.
Benares: done
Fuzhou: done
Kutaraja: not really. You see, it is only on the list of one leader, for whom Kutaraja is a contemporary name. Since other Austronesian leaders don't have any way to ever found OR conquer this city (as it can only be founded by another Austronesian leader and there can't be two Austronesian civs at the same time), the conditions for your suggestion will never be fulfilled. There are other cases like that, most recently in my fresh Spanish city list, where a rename is not needed since it is impossible to fulfill the conditions.
Magadala: those are spelling variants, I chose the less common one. I can switch to the more common one I guess.
Malacca: I can see where you're coming from, but in this case I left this one in on purpose. I often leave the standard English spelling for major cities. Otherwise we'd have Moskva instead of Moscow, Konstantinopolis instead of Constantinople etc.
Stirling: correct me if you think I'm wrong, but IIRC Scots, not Gaelic was the "official" language of the kingdom of Scotland. And for non-Scottish leaders it is again a moot point, same as with Kutaraja.
Surabaya: see above for Dutch
Susa: done
Timbuktu: I think those all are just spelling variants, not actually different names. It's just (again, if I understand correctly) Malian can be transliterated in many ways. I know of these variants, but since they weren't actual renames, I left them out.


29 Dec 2017, o 12:11
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Noble

Joined: 3 Jun 2017, o 10:24
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Location: Curitiba, Brazil
Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
I know that exist the Scottish Gaelic, and it was with this language in mind that I suggested Sruighlea but I don't have domain on this things, most of the suggestions I give it's about to provide pure variations about civs and their languages and feel in game that something have changed when a civ conquers a city of someone else, that's why, for example, I think would be cool if you permit exonyms as renames but I can see your philosophy better now and I respect.

What about Pi-Ramesses? Think you skip this one.
Can I keep bringing derivative civs renames anyway? Just for you apply them when you think it is time?


29 Dec 2017, o 13:06
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Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
Regarding Scotland: it's kind of bilingual with Scots and Gaelic both co-existing, but by the time of the leaders we have in RI, Scots (which is related to English) was the language spoken by the nobility. If we had some earlier leaders (roughly before the Norman conquest of England), we would have used Gaelic city names. I do use exonyms in many parts where I feel they are appropriate, but Gaelic is simply not used by any of Celtic leaders present in RI. And the name you suggested would probably be useful for Irish and Gaulic leaders if they held Stirling, but again, that simply can't happen within a normal game - if Stirling is there, it was founded by one of the Scots leaders, and that means that there are no Irish or Gauls in that game.

Actually, it would be cool if you tried a systemic approach by finding all possible exonyms for a given civ that I could have missed. Especially some, like Arabs and Turks, should have plenty. I mean, they probably shouldn't use their own for China, but if at a certain point they had a real shot of conquering some area, that is quite appropriate. For instance, for Turks or Germans all of Eastern Europe is fair play - especially since that it sometimes happens in the Deluge scenario. Likewise, for Arabs Spain and probably France are similarly fair play.

Regarding Pi-Ramesses, yes, I simply missed it. Done. As for derivative civs, you definitely can, but don't go out of your way for that. If you see that a name would likely end up on their city list anyway (like Amsterdam for Netherlands), don't bother, as there is no way I'll miss it when I reach the civ.


30 Dec 2017, o 02:02
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Noble

Joined: 3 Jun 2017, o 10:24
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Location: Curitiba, Brazil
Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
All right, I'll keep those things in mind from now on.
A quick thought: It's possible to implant instead of graphs, a ranking of civs classified in absolutely numbers? Showing each civ GDP, production, population and territory size? Like a demographics overhaul. See this thing in a Civ V mod and it's just amazing.


30 Dec 2017, o 11:14
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Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
Wouldn't know where to start with this, unfortunately.


30 Dec 2017, o 12:41
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Noble

Joined: 3 Jun 2017, o 10:24
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Location: Curitiba, Brazil
Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
What about those "Plato has completed his great masterpiece, the list of 10 richest civilizations in the world:..." random event - this shows that game has control about the statistics, maybe if it was available to see every turn you want, it's already something, what do you think?


30 Dec 2017, o 14:36
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Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
Maybe, again I don't know how to do this. I can't really modify UI in major ways.


31 Dec 2017, o 03:17
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Noble

Joined: 3 Jun 2017, o 10:24
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Location: Curitiba, Brazil
Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
That's sad :(. Hope someday you or other dev find a elegant solution....

Do you mind if instead of post a new topic for every thought I have, I use this one for conversation? Cause I have another one that I think is too basic for a new thread... I was wondering if you can teach me or at least give some directions about change civs units - I want to give Austria a "city-state" condition like it is Portugal and it was Netherlands in my own version of the World Map, I just want they build settlers only after administration tech, it's hard???


3 Jan 2018, o 19:04
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Post Re: Suggestions for cities renaming
It's just a matter of specifying the correct units/buildings in Derivative_CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml. Find Portugal there for example, and see how it's handled. Austria can be changed in the same file.


4 Jan 2018, o 03:11
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