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 deepening feudalism 
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Warlord

Joined: 4 Feb 2010, o 21:51
Posts: 50
Post deepening feudalism
Well my english is poor but i will do an effort for make my point clear.
I am sure some of you know how feudalism system worked or at less have their own historical point of view associated with your local area learning way. Feudalism(monarchy feudalism) political and military estructure is (and was) a pyramid system where the king was at the top. Near below he, his vassals and below his vassals "the vassals of his vassal" and so; taking in to account an important saying : " the vasssal of my vassal is not my vassal". King vassals haved his own lands or fiefs where they rule. Fiefs worked as "micro kindoms" where feudal lords were "micro kings". The fiefs were economically and military self-sufficient.Trade and cites sizes were depressed much at feudalism. Feud lords have all powers at his land: ejecutive, judicial, legal, etc, their obligations to the king was about military services and watching the king generic laws.

Looking at game, King´vassal and feudal monarchy are very good features in this way.
The player as the king, having the right civics (monarchy and aristocracy) have the option of concede one of his cities to a vassal building a king´vassal. When it happen i proposse some fixes:

1- King´vassal reduce city upkeep to ZERO, and (optionally) this city doesn´t count for cities upkeep purposes. The vassal get total economic count of his land, this city is no more an economic charge for the country.
2-Trade penalty: No trade rute for a king´vassal city, get one trade rute just with a castle. Feudalism economic system depressed the trade, "on theory, each feud can build all it need for his population live".

3- Health penalty: +1 unhealth or +2 unhealth for king´vassal cities.
4- Research penalty: -15% science production.
Fiefs haved a subsistence economy, almost rural at all. Poor trade and few manufactury labor affect the city growing and research.

5- Military units production +25%, units +2 exp point, at king´vassal cities. Free supported military units limit increased for every king´vassal. (It is necessary to remove these ones from generic aristocracy civic features.) Feudal lords create and keep his own good army.
6- +1 happiness at king´vassal cities. Granting the city to a vassal an small portion of population near the feudal lord family feels benefit.
7- Feudal monarchy National wonder don´t give a king´vassal at every city, intead allow you to build king´vassals for free.
8- You need to pay a prize for remove a king´vassal(gold or hammers) or get a revolution. Spiritual liders can remove king´vassals for free. A king´vassal is a some powerfull people, you canpt remove him from his position with out a cost.
9- there must be some penalty related to the descentralization and inestability you get when you create some among of king´vassals. Civilization normal mod and TR mod never consider stability issues: there are no civil wars, no throne sucession wars, no vassals rebellions, etc. Only Rise and fall mod take them in to account. Then i am not sure how to sum an stability penalty and descentralization penalty. Maybe rising civics upkeep cost for each king´vassal, or other more sophisticated idea..
Based on those 9 points i think it is possivel to figure out some way of playing where players have the option of build a solid rocky waring feudal state. Is that decision a practical idea in game? it will depend, like everything else in civilization.
I have other many ideas in order to continue this point related with the way of the "absolutism" will affect this system i proposed, but i think my text is large enought.
But the way, i am not from Brazil, I am from Cuba.


25 Apr 2010, o 21:40
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RI Team
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007, o 09:23
Posts: 2918
Post Re: deepening feudalism
That is very radical; it will take a lot of effort to balance. Also, when something is proposed to be done by player's hand, always give a thought as per how well AI will be able to use it, if at all.

Although I agree with you in principle, we should try to implement many effects of feudalism (as well as other social formations) via events now, as we have this possibility.


25 Apr 2010, o 22:00
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007, o 08:02
Posts: 726
Location: Verdun, France, Europe, Earth, Milky Way,....
Post Re: deepening feudalism
Interesting ideas. Well developped in your text.

I like some of them, particullary the idea of having a "self sufficient city" because of a local lord. That's quite logical.
Nevertheless, the main problem is always: will AI be able to understand and use such a system ? Will AI like using such a system ?

We will see what can be done. But i repeat, i like some of your ideas. :D

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26 Apr 2010, o 12:11
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Warlord

Joined: 4 Feb 2010, o 21:51
Posts: 50
Post Re: deepening feudalism
Hian the Frog wrote:
Interesting ideas. Well developped in your text.

I like some of them, particullary the idea of having a "self sufficient city" because of a local lord. That's quite logical.
Nevertheless, the main problem is always: will AI be able to understand and use such a system ? Will AI like using such a system ?

We will see what can be done. But i repeat, i like some of your ideas. :D


I don´t know how much control you (the mods builders) have of the AI behavor. If you can modify AI behavor code or not, idk. Case you haven´t access to AI code, then it must hard to mod.


26 Apr 2010, o 19:50
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Warlord

Joined: 4 Feb 2010, o 21:51
Posts: 50
Post Re: deepening feudalism
Hian the Frog wrote:
Interesting ideas. Well developped in your text.

I like some of them, particullary the idea of having a "self sufficient city" because of a local lord. That's quite logical.
Nevertheless, the main problem is always: will AI be able to understand and use such a system ? Will AI like using such a system ?

We will see what can be done. But i repeat, i like some of your ideas. :D


But the way, it is good to know someone read my text.


26 Apr 2010, o 19:59
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