View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently 19 Oct 2019, o 19:20



Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
 Carrier Aid 
Author Message
Warlord
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2008, o 04:11
Posts: 87
Location: Finland, Ekenäs
Post Carrier Aid
Carrier aid should be changed to air cover. Provided by aircraft and not by the carriers themselves. Empty carriers is of little use. Perhaps even immediate proximity of land based aircraft should give this kind of aid. And so should also be the case at the sea. Ships in the tile next to any aircraft should get air cover (aid).

_________________
"If the tiger ever pauses,
the elephant will impale him on his mighty tusks.
But the tiger will not pause,
and the elephant will die of exhaustion and loss of blood"

Ho Chi Minh


14 Aug 2010, o 06:10
Profile
RI Team
User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2007, o 09:23
Posts: 2916
Post Re: Carrier Aid
Carriers are assumed to be carrying some amount of planes all the time, so the aid provided by carriers is, of course, assumed to be the aid provided by the aircraft they carry. It would be much more difficult to calculate the aid for the units that carriers carry, instead of the ships themselves.


14 Aug 2010, o 15:30
Profile
Warlord
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2008, o 04:11
Posts: 87
Location: Finland, Ekenäs
Post Re: Carrier Aid
Well, I had two examples in mind.

First, the second day of the battle of the Philippine Sea where the ijn had lost most of their aircraft and had no real use of their carriers at that moment.

When all aircraft is taken out the bonus shouldn't simply be there any more. As long there's any aircraft left it's of course good as it is.
Then there's another problem. If the bonus is gained from any aircraft present on board, no matter how many or how strong. How to take them down if they are not patrolling? Just keep an aircraft on board, no matter if it's badly damaged, but leave them below deck and nothing can take it away? If this will work it must only be applied from patrolling aircraft, and as far as I've seen, no civ4 mod I've tested so far have had anything that depends on what a unit is doing. Well, other than the standard fortify infantry units.

Second (about land based air cover), the operations at the northern convoy route to Barents Sea where luftwaffe played an important role in strengthening the danger posed by the german battleships based mainly in Altafjord.

I think the land based air cover have less importance regarding modifications in civ4, because of the already good possibilities to airstrike ships. It's just isn't as good as it could when CV based aircraft gives a huge bonus to ships, while similar aircraft based on a base only a short flying time away is of little use for defence against enemy surface ships coming in range, attacks and then runs away. Just the kind of attacks the Royal Navy was unable to make due to the presence of german aircraft in Norway where they lacked the possibility to maintain even local air superiority.

_________________
"If the tiger ever pauses,
the elephant will impale him on his mighty tusks.
But the tiger will not pause,
and the elephant will die of exhaustion and loss of blood"

Ho Chi Minh


15 Aug 2010, o 05:38
Profile
Noble

Joined: 16 Jun 2008, o 19:59
Posts: 47
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Re: Carrier Aid
"Re: Carrier Aid
by Walter Hawkwood » 14 Aug 2010, o 15:30

Carriers are assumed to be carrying some amount of planes all the time, so the aid provided by carriers is, of course, assumed to be the aid provided by the aircraft they carry. It would be much more difficult to calculate the aid for the units that carriers carry, instead of the ships themselves.
Walter Hawkwood "



As Walter said this would require not only a lot of script rework and the worthiness of this might be worth that. but this is just one more calculation to eat memory. at this point the team seems to be looking to simplify code if anything. this mod is in the top three for added content. and the top one for accounting battle odds changes, such as rams and other offensive only units not initiation of an attack. that’s now something many other mods have incorporated but it started here. real carriers have a lot more on them than fighters and bombers like marines, anti sub hello’s, smaller AWAX type planes ( not the BOEING giant but still air bound radar) among other multi mission support aircraft that never return to any other base except for servicing, these aircraft belong to that carrier and are not able to be reassigned. Carriers also have fixed anti-air response such as SAM capabilities. so the air cover never goes away.

As for the land. SAMs are part of every 1st and second world military in every branch. so while every unit might not have this capability they have radios. and are able to call back to brigade (ARMY) or someone to tell their superiors that Air superiority is not stable and a response is needed. shit even the afghan’s got SAM's form USA eventually to fight off Soviet Hello’s... so by modern era when carriers become available its only real to show that aircraft are not invincible... that’s my opinion, I respect yours I just think that it belongs in the early to late-middish industrial era or rather befor anti air cover wasn't possible for lack of rockets, radio and other techs that make it possible


18 Aug 2010, o 02:26
Profile YIM
Noble

Joined: 16 Jun 2008, o 19:59
Posts: 47
Location: Seattle, WA
Post Re: Carrier Aid
OK i reread your seconed post, and i see you are reffering to WW2 and possibly before. units certianly has less ability to deal with air attacks then.. sorry for that misinterpretation, still the direction of the team at this time is to crank. Help is needed, im not anyone to say this as all Ideas are highly valued. I just reccognize that civ 5 is just around the corrner and who know whats waiting for all of us in the new engine,. everyone will barly have time to play BTS TR as is.

again sorry i didn't mean to knock the idea but it was a real short time 1914-1940 that aircraft where in fact untouchable except by other aircraft. It didn't take a country long to answer the question of how to defend aginst aircraft once they saw the threat they pose.


18 Aug 2010, o 02:45
Profile YIM
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 5 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.